Discussion II about the Suspension List
Look, I realized the thread was unfair and removed it. Was I late in doing so? Undoubtedly. Was I late in stopping his massive posts calling multiple players names and falsely accusing them of scamming people for profit. Undoubtedly so.
I have no idea what your point is. I had nothing to do with the banishment here. I did not request it, despite the claims made in this thread.
What does one's opinion on racial issues have to do with AP?
Someone can hate til the cows come home and still beat the casino.
If e.g. Trump were a knowledgeable AP I'd set aside my personal opinion of the man and focus on what he has to teach me about AP.
Quote: QFITDo you actually compare a joke to tens of thousands of posts of "evil Jews", Holocaust denial, etc. The person who's claims he is repeating calls blacks sub-human and has made innumerable other claims about various minorities. Nearly all of the posters there were banned from multiple sites for overt racism. They managed to shut down Ken's wonderful site. But, in the thread to which this site's hero posts to, they are now claiming that Ken's site was shut down by a Jewish conspiracy. Are you really comparing this to a joke about casino managers?
Look, I realized the thread was unfair and removed it. Was I late in doing so? Undoubtedly. Was I late in stopping his massive posts calling multiple players names and falsely accusing them of scamming people for profit. Undoubtedly so.
I have no idea what your point is. I had nothing to do with the banishment here. I did not request it, despite the claims made in this thread.
Again we go, you're misleading people.
You say KJ posts on an anti-Semite / white-supremacist website. Factually true. Misleading, no doubt.
You have a forum that's only for casino management and costs $5k/month. Factually true. Although, misleading.
You frequently read the content of an anti-Semite and white-supremacist website. True, yet misleading.
You banned a member who was found out to be gay, from your forum, and you continue attacking him to this day. Factually true, yet misleading (ie: it has nothing to do with his sexuality).
I'm NOT saying white-supremacy or anti-Semitism is similar to a joke about casino managers.
My point is -- you can say things that are factually true yet misleading at the same time. Which is exactly what you've been doing.
And NOW you're saying you're not painting him as a white-supremacist / anti-Semite?! Please, read then re-read the following:
Quote: QFITHe recently posted that he agrees with all the things they've said about me. They claim, among so many things, that I knew about 9/11 in advance and allowed thousands of people to die. I live in Manhattan. My GF ate lunch most days for years in the basement of the WTC. My company had two floors in the one of the buildings. We had to close the windows every time the wind turned to the North to avoid the smell of death for a full year. And that's just the start of what they have posted for the last four years.
Quote: MrVWhat is this horrible anti-semitic site you are talking about?
Zooloo
Echo
November
Zooloo
Oscar
November
Echo
Foxtrot
Oscar
Romeo
Uniform
Mike
Without regard to the specific issues at hand, I hosted the "The Zen Zone" on cardcounter.com before Ken hosted it. Looking back, it was an abomination and an embarrassment that I hosted ZenGrifter's horrid content. People who host/post that kind of crap deserve to be marginalized. No one should post, view or contribute to such sites, anywhere, ever. Adding any content whatsoever to a holocaust-denying anti-semetic hate site is beyond shameful.Quote: QFITDo you actually compare a joke to tens of thousands of posts of "evil Jews", Holocaust denial, etc. The person who's claims he is repeating calls blacks sub-human and has made innumerable other claims about various minorities. Nearly all of the posters there were banned from multiple sites for overt racism. They managed to shut down Ken's wonderful site. But, in the thread to which this site's hero posts to, they are now claiming that Ken's site was shut down by a Jewish conspiracy. Are you really comparing this to a joke about casino managers?
Quote: QFITFirst time I've ever heard that about him and couldn't care less.
I believe that the first part about as much as I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The second part is more believable.
Quote: WizardFinally, as far as I can tell, QFIT has never sent me a Private Message but has always communicated with me by Email.
And the difference is?
True he never sent a pm but misleading since he contacted you via email which he has and probably was just easier then pming
So overall
Again
True but misleading
I am humbled by the presence of the great ones that participate here in this group of Forums. But I swear, I thought I read about a negotiated truce. kJ is here no more, suspended for not abiding by that truce I thought. QFit was suspended as well. Have the terms of that truce been tossed out the window? Why is QFit still allowed to post about KJ? Why?Quote: WizardQFIT has asked me to confirm his statement that he never asked that Kewlj be suspended or nuked. This is correct. In all fairness, he has pointed out what he perceived to be infractions of the truce. Based on many Emails from him, he has been consistent in wanting posts be removed as opposed to the writer punished. However, here at the WoV we tend to respect free speech and hate to remove posts, except ones blatantly of a spamming nature or quoting from private communication. I would also like to remind everybody that it is not against the rules to simply be wrong about something, which is why we have let stand many posts even when they may contain untrue statements. Finally, as far as I can tell, QFIT has never sent me a Private Message but has always communicated with me by Email.
On a lighter note, trump won Florida, so...USA! USA! USA!
Better put a NASCAR shirt on or a trump fanatic will likely suspect you of being in ISIS
Quote: mcallister3200bc former members are usually open game?
You're also not supposed to get suspended/banned for writing stuff on other forums. Given the extraordinary circumstances, it doesn't seem right that QFIT is breaking the truce agreement here right now.
Quote: mcallister3200On a lighter note, trump won Florida, so...USA! USA! USA!
Better put a NASCAR shirt on or a trump fanatic will likely suspect you of being in ISIS
I'm OK with this.
Norm, you send multiple e-mails to Mike, complaining about KJ. Perhaps you never asked or said "I want him banned!" But, filing a complaint, knowing that if it goes your way that KJ would be suspended/nuked, and labeling it as "not a request for suspension/nuke on KJ" is.....what's the word again? Misleading. No wonder KJ says you have an agenda.
That's what I find curious about the whole thing.
But I don't have enough information to really make a sound judgment about any of this.
Quote: RS
Norm, you send multiple e-mails to Mike, complaining about KJ. Perhaps you never asked or said "I want him banned!" But, filing a complaint, knowing that if it goes your way that KJ would be suspended/nuked, and labeling it as "not a request for suspension/nuke on KJ" is.....what's the word again? Misleading. No wonder KJ says you have an agenda.
He stated that I contacted Mike "begging" that he be suspended. This is an outright fabrication which people here have repeated as if it is gospel. And that is just the start of his claims. Not only did I not beg for him to be suspended, I never even faintly suggested it. I specifically asked that posts be removed that were violations. You and others have flagged posts on BJTF. Sometimes that results in deletes. I have NEVER suspended an actual member as the result of a flagged post -- only spammers. I had not the faintest idea that this would result in a suspension and am tired of people claiming they know what is in my mind. Now, Mike has verified that what I have been saying is correct. Doesn't seem to matter to some here.
If he ever wants to post here again, I strongly suggest that he come to terms with the real reasons why he was ejected and talk to the administration here. I have nothing to do with the admin of WoV. He needs to take ownership of and responsibility for his own actions. The difficulties that he has experienced on multiple forums precede me and involve many people. Blaming his difficulties on others will not solve his problems, and you do him no favors by supporting his claims.
Quote: RomesI never said Norm demanded a suspension nor a nuke. Only that he did contact Mike many, many times about the situation and since we can't discuss PM's we don't know what was exactly said and are left to speculate. With the rest of the info we do have, and how Norm feels about KJ, it would behoove anyone to think otherwise, though we don't know it as fact, yet.
There are other ways to contact someone than via the Private Message function on this website.
Quote: MrVWhat is this horrible anti-semitic site you are talking about?
What does one's opinion on racial issues have to do with AP?
Someone can hate til the cows come home and still beat the casino.
If e.g. Trump were a knowledgeable AP I'd set aside my personal opinion of the man and focus on what he has to teach me about AP.
The anti-semite forum is Zen Zone Forum. Google it and visit if you wish. There are a few APs that hang out there but it is mostly the radically racist stuff that Norm has described.
Quote: AcesAndEightsThe anti-semite forum is Zen Zone Forum. Google it and visit if you wish. There are a few APs that hang out there but it is mostly the radically racist stuff that Norm has described.
I just checked out that forum
1st off from some of the discriptions here, I thought I would be entering the KKK zone
I don't get the impression of radically racist stuff
Wow, Norm/Qfit is quite the topic over there
I read a lot of the comments regarding Norm/Qfit.
What I read is not anti-semetic
I read a lot of valid criticism.
Now I just scratched the surface but so far have not read any racist posts
Now the racism may be there but so far I don't see it
Its interesting because you get to hear KJ's response
I just think its absurd to suspend members for actions on other boards
This is not facebook
We really are not 100% sure who most people are here
We certainly cant be 100% sure of a members identity on another board
Are webmasters comparing private email addresses to confirm true identity?
Short of that, anonymous posters on another forum should have no impact on any decisions here
Is there 100% proof that Kewlj and KJ are the same.
Yes there is evidence of probability up to 99% but without comparing private email addresses, it does not meet the 100% thresh hold so I believe nuking is unwarranted.
What is the absolute irrefutable proof that Kewlj and KJ are the same
Are webmasters ignoring privacy and comparing email addresses?
Quote: terapinedI don't get the impression of radically racist stuff...What I read is not anti-semetic...Now I just scratched the surface but so far have not read any racist posts...Now the racism may be there but so far I don't see it
Go to the "Anything Else But" section, that is where they stash all the antisemitic stuff.
I did this out of TRANSPARENCY as you were "talking about" RS's post on here and made it sound like he said something other than the truth. I copied his post and the thread so others could see and judge for themselves instead of just taking your misleading words that he was harshly attacking you (which he was not).Quote: QFIT...I stated why I killed that thread. I felt it was unfair of you to make your post where I couldn't respond. I made a post on BJTF which didn't mention anyone here. But then Romes copied your post to BJTF and linked to the thread from here...
Well, as I stated he didn't use the PM system but did 'complain' to you. Again, as I stated he didn't "directly" request KJ be suspended or nuked, but let's all call a spade a spade... He sent you 19 emails about "LOOK WHAT KJ DID/SAID," expecting a resulting suspension/nuke. He didn't say "suspend or nuke him" directly, but might as well of. "He broke our truce, look, look!" is the same as saying "Yep, suspend/nuke him" in my eyes. A spade is a spade.Quote: WizardQFIT has asked me to confirm his statement that he never asked that Kewlj be suspended or nuked. This is correct. In all fairness, he has pointed out what he perceived to be infractions of the truce. Based on many Emails from him, he has been consistent in wanting posts be removed as opposed to the writer punished...
...looks like our "speculation" was spot on. Shocking.
Quote: RomesI did this out of TRANSPARENCY as you were "talking about" RS's post on here and made it sound like he said something other than the truth. I copied his post and the thread so others could see and judge for themselves instead of just taking your misleading words that he was harshly attacking you (which he was not).
Well, as I stated he didn't use the PM system but did 'complain' to you. Again, as I stated he didn't "directly" request KJ be suspended or nuked, but let's all call a spade a spade... He sent you 19 emails about "LOOK WHAT KJ DID/SAID," expecting a resulting suspension/nuke. He didn't say "suspend or nuke him" directly, but might as well of. "He broke our truce, look, look!" is the same as saying "Yep, suspend/nuke him" in my eyes. A spade is a spade.Quote: WizardQFIT has asked me to confirm his statement that he never asked that Kewlj be suspended or nuked. This is correct. In all fairness, he has pointed out what he perceived to be infractions of the truce. Based on many Emails from him, he has been consistent in wanting posts be removed as opposed to the writer punished...
...looks like our "speculation" was spot on. Shocking.
OK, let us call a spade a spade, as you say:
1. I NEVER said RS made harsh attacks., You just made that up. All I said was that he asked me questions where I could not respond.
2. I don't know why you keep repeating this 19 number. What you heard was dead wrong. I did NOT expect a suspension/nuke. That is a complete fabrication. And, I didn't phrase it anything like that. Another fabrication. This is the sixth time you have declared that their exist thoughts and schemes in my head based on nothing. Perhaps this is the way you think and act.
Look, I know you want to defend your friend. But, he stated that I "begged Mike to suspend him". That is not close to reality. Mike has said this is not true; yet you continue to ignore all evidence and make wild speculations of malevolence. This is exactly what your friend has done here and elsewhere for months. He simply cannot accept that fact that people disagree with him and assigns malevolent motivations to their disagreements. No one could possibly disagree with him, therefore they must have an agenda to steal from new players. It's sad that anyone thinks in such a manner.
Frankly, what is considered evidence here by some is starting to sound McCarthyist. In any case, your argument is with WoV. I have no authority here and did not ban anyone. The statement that I had this as my intention is an abominable lie and the claim that Mike would have simply automatically banned him due to an e-mail from me is an insult to Mike and this site.
I trust Mike. Mike stated you contacted him numerous times to discuss what you viewed as violations of your truce. How is this not like saying "look what he did wrong!" and thus implying, expecting, whatever word you think works best... a suspension/nuke? Seriously delusional if you think you can say "look, he violated our truce! ...Oh he got suspended? Well that's a shock to me as I wasn't requesting that!"Quote: QFIT...I did NOT expect a suspension/nuke. That is a complete fabrication.
Always obsessed with KJ lol. No one's discussing what he stated but what you said/did and the results from it. And from what I've heard, from Mike even, you contacting him to discuss how KJ broke your truce in my mind IS essentially begging for a suspension/nuke.Quote: QFITLook, I know you want to defend your friend. But, he stated that I "begged Mike to suspend him".
"Teacher, little Jimmy said something on the playground that was wrong! Make him sit in the corner with a dunce cap."
What ever happened to "Boys will be boys?"
I'm not telling him anything. I'm relating MY observations of all of the evidence in this thread and how it quite obviously points to you "indirectly" requesting a suspension/nuke of KJ... Even though you repeatedly keep saying you didn't. Oh, right, you just said 'look Mike, look what kj did! he violated our truce! omg!!! What are you gonna do?!?!?' ...then act surprised like you had nothing to do with his suspension/nuke.Quote: QFITIf you are telling him that he is right to blame me for his infractions and resulting nuke, you are no friend to him.
Quote: RomesI'm not telling him anything. I'm relating MY observations of all of the evidence in this thread and how it quite obviously points to you "indirectly" requesting a suspension/nuke of KJ... Even though you repeatedly keep saying you didn't. Oh, right, you just said 'look Mike, look what kj did! he violated our truce! omg!!! What are you gonna do?!?!?' ...then act surprised like you had nothing to do with his suspension/nuke.
I said no such thing. You continue to make outright fabrications.
Using your "logic", it is clear that you were behind the sinking of the Lusitania and are the real O.J. killer.
Quote: BozI just hope we don't lost another valuable member (Romes) due to this nonsense.
Me too.
I'll be the first to admit this whole mess could have been handled a lot better, including by me. Let me also clarify that while we generally don't care what happens on other boards here, if it involves revealing of private communication sent from here, then we reserve the right to nuke whoever is doing it. Ultimately, the nuclear option is always there for any reason we see fit.
In conclusion, I'll take my lumps for not handling this feud like Henry Kissinger. I just hope we don't lose any good members in protest over it.
Quote: QFITI said no such thing. You continue to make outright fabrications.
Using your "logic", it is clear that you were behind the sinking of the Lusitania and are the real O.J. killer.
1) You caught me, you damn kids and your dog.
2) While those clearly weren't your exact words, EVERYONE can see from context that you did in fact message Mike (not via PM) MULTIPLE times to "discuss" how KJ broke your truce. While not directly asking for a suspension/nuke, to anyone with a brain, this is OBVIOUSLY inadvertently asking for the same thing.
You've done what you could do in trying to do the right things, Mike. I don't blame you for any of that. However, we've already lost multiple good members, such as KJ and HowMany... and for what, so QFIT can still post here? I did think about immediately jumping on the "cya bye" wagon, but I'd rather not allow the manipulation of the forum go unaddressed. Like I said prior, I tried to ignore all of this myself as well, and I'm to the point now where it's like "Fine, here's what I see happening..."Quote: Wizard...In conclusion, I'll take my lumps for not handling this feud like Henry Kissinger. I just hope we don't lose any good members in protest over it.
While this forum is NOT a democracy and I do agree you/your team rule as you wish, I still think it would be quite "intriguing" to put it to a vote. My money would be on everyone voting KJ come back and QFIT be nuked.
Oh. BTW, I also eat live babies.
...I would have settled for a "okay Hi/Low is good too", but thanks. I know enough based off what I've seen in this thread alone.Quote: QFITOK, I give up. You win. You know more about what is in my mind than I know myself. You know what is meant by the words in e-mails that you have never seen. You are all-knowing and all-seeing.
Well I just don't think I can support this. Why do they have to be live? So much more humane if they weren't...Quote: QFITOh. BTW, I also eat live babies.
If the messages you sent Mike were so innocent why don't you post them for us to see and let us decide for ourselves?Quote: QFITOK, I give up. You win. You know more about what is in my mind than I know myself. You know what is meant by the words in e-mails that you have never seen. You are all-knowing and all-seeing.
Oh. BTW, I also eat live babies.
Quote: AxelWolfIf the messagesame you sent Mike were so innocent why don't you post them for us to see and let us decide for ourselves?
If the e-mail said "Happy Birthday Mike", someone here would say anyone could see it was obvious, secret code to nuke someone.
I'll be spending the rest of the day handling support for the free casino database app I announced five minutes ago and will let you guys carry on with claims about what secret evil motivations exist in my mind.
Really that's your answer? That's lameQuote: QFITIf the e-mail said "Happy Birthday Mike", someone here would say it was secret code to nuke someone.
I have no dog in this fight.
I think you both have an agenda and are equally to blame.
If you're innocent you shouldn't have a problem.
I think you are spinning the truth in some of your responses they may be technically true but purposely misleading.
Was it only 18 messages or perhaps 20? But just not 19?
Quote: QFITIf the e-mail said "Happy Birthday Mike", someone here would say anyone could see it was obvious, secret code to nuke someone.
.
I agree with Axel
There are many honest members here that care about this dispute and losing valuable members
There are obviously a few here that you don't trust
but
to paint the entire membership as unable to examine evidence fairly says a lot about how you feel about this board
It also says a lot about you letting a few members determine the honesty of the entire board with your snarky response above
Its a comment that infers that every member is an idiot. Its wrong and says something about you.
There are many honest members here that are interested in evaluating the evidence fairly
Providing all the evidence is the fair way to go to resolve any dispute
If everything you are saying is true, then the evidence should prove what you have been posting here
You just proved my point. No matter what I post, someone will put words in my mouth and intent in my brain that don't exist.
Basically you are saying the emails/PM's or whatever you used are incriminating enough that someone would be able to miscuntrure them easily?Quote: QFITDo you know the difference between the two words "someone" and "everyone"?
You just proved my point. No matter what I post, someone will put words in my mouth and intent in my brain that don't exist.
IE. Mike I would really hate for you to permanently ban KJ if you know what I mean wink wink.
You would rather have us speculate than know the truth?
Quote: QFITDo you know the difference between the two words "someone" and "everyone"?
You just proved my point. No matter what I post, someone will put words in my mouth and intent in my brain that don't exist.
Yes I made a mistake
I apologize
but
to not provide evidence because you have to trust every single member not to misconstrue
the majority will evaluate the evidence honestly
provide the evidence, ignore the few that misconstrue and let the chips fall where ever they fall
Quote: WizardIn conclusion, I'll take my lumps for not handling this feud like Henry Kissinger. I just hope we don't lose any good members in protest over it.
Ouch. Poor HowMany...
lol
Quote: AxelWolfBasically you are saying the emails/PM's or whatever you used are incriminating enough that someone would be able to miscuntrure them easily.
IE. Mike I would really hate for you to permanently ban KJ if you know what I mean wink wink.
You would rather have us speculate than know the truth?
Again, my point is proved. I said nothing like that. I thought nothing like that. You folks just plain invent things. Look, you guys are giving the false impression that there was a one-way stream of communications to Mike. We had a couple conversations. People talk back and forth in a conversation. It included discussions of other forums that have streams of attacks against both of us. There is no way that I am going to release the transcript of a private conversation. Both Mike and I have posted that there was NO effort on my part to suspend anyone. But, no matter what I say or release, there are some people that will believe another person's vile claims.
And you won't see me asking Mike for his conversation with KJ either. Because it is unethical.
In any case, it is all irrelevant. I don't control Mike or WoV. It was his decision, and he stated his reasons: Violation of privacy and untrue statements.
This.Quote: Gabes22Could you possibly acknowledge that while something wasn't intended to be hostile but might have been received that way due to your radioactive relationship so, while not your intent, might not necessarily be a lie on his part either
Neither does being a child. He appeared to more/less defend you (for the most part) in his post and extend a hesitant olive branch. I re-read his post and don't even see how you could pull 3 "more lies about you" out of it? ...there was an edited line I didn't see the first time you're probably taking loosely as #2.Quote: QFITKJ just posted three more lies about me. It never ends.
Quote: RomesThis.
Neither does being a child. He appeared to more/less defend you (for the most part) in his post and extend a hesitant olive branch. I re-read his post and don't even see how you could pull 3 "more lies about you" out of it?
The major lie was that his call for a "truce" contained more extreme false accusations. And the e-mail before that said that he would continue his attacks for 50 years, long after I am dead and gone. When you come to a truce, you bring a white flag, not a machine gun.
New Solution
Email each other back and forth constantly attacking one another and saying whatever mean hurtful things you possibly can. You MUST do this non stop for days/weeks on end. When both of you run out of mean things to say and are sick of yelling at each other then perhaps it might be over. In the mean time at least all of any "issues" you guys have will be in private and off the public forums.
Now, if you want me to stop responding to your posts about this, stop claiming that you know better than I what's in my head.
