A Word About our Dealers
October 5th, 2025 at 3:04:01 PM
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Just played locally for a couple of hours. Got my butt kicked but finally ended up about $1200 with a Dealer $150 tip.
I was cashing out at the cage behind a clown who really aggravated me and I wanted to share the experience.
Background: I play "a lot". If I totally sucked, I'd be homeless; of course, that could eventually happen.
I have many Dealers who are friends and I can tell you, without reservation, that the good ones work their butts off for minimum wage and have to put up with a lot of BS from ignorant Players. When folks are winning, the Dealers are great; when they are losing, the Dealer's suck. The thing is, from the Dealers' perspective, nothing ever changes: they are always just deliverying the 🤬 cards the machine gives them. They are literally, "the Messenger".
Any hoo: today's drama revolved around a guy who'd apparently hit a slot jackpot that resulted in a "hand pay". That means he was above the $1250 threshold for IRS reporting so a casino employee had to get involved with paying out the jackpot. After the payout was resolved, he was notified that the casino was deducting $150 from his because he'd recently been "over paid" on a hand at a table game at at a sister casino.
Over payments happen ALL OF THE TIME. Dealers are human and they make mistakes. Eventually, in a perfect World, the cameras and the machines will level everything. In an even more perfect World, the Player who is being overpaid will tell the Dealer of the error. However, that happens less frequently than one might hope and, as "that guy" who always lets the Dealer know when they make a mistake, it's not the best way to make friends in a casino.
Why am I ranting about this? Because, in my book, accepting an overpayment is a) cheating, and b) can result in a Dealer being disciplined.
Sure, the casino is always going to make money - that's the concept of "House Edge". You/We will not win in the long run. It's literally statistically impossible. However, when the House loses, if it's because the Dealer "screwed" up, the House will end up with its "pound of flesh". The Dealer will pay the price.
Back to the jerk today: in all of his rantings about how unfair the situation was, he never challenged that he'd been overpaid. In fact, when I asked him if he'd been overpaid, he ended up with a weird form of amnesia that included the phrase "shouldn't matter anyway"
Thoughts, anyone?
I was cashing out at the cage behind a clown who really aggravated me and I wanted to share the experience.
Background: I play "a lot". If I totally sucked, I'd be homeless; of course, that could eventually happen.
I have many Dealers who are friends and I can tell you, without reservation, that the good ones work their butts off for minimum wage and have to put up with a lot of BS from ignorant Players. When folks are winning, the Dealers are great; when they are losing, the Dealer's suck. The thing is, from the Dealers' perspective, nothing ever changes: they are always just deliverying the 🤬 cards the machine gives them. They are literally, "the Messenger".
Any hoo: today's drama revolved around a guy who'd apparently hit a slot jackpot that resulted in a "hand pay". That means he was above the $1250 threshold for IRS reporting so a casino employee had to get involved with paying out the jackpot. After the payout was resolved, he was notified that the casino was deducting $150 from his because he'd recently been "over paid" on a hand at a table game at at a sister casino.
Over payments happen ALL OF THE TIME. Dealers are human and they make mistakes. Eventually, in a perfect World, the cameras and the machines will level everything. In an even more perfect World, the Player who is being overpaid will tell the Dealer of the error. However, that happens less frequently than one might hope and, as "that guy" who always lets the Dealer know when they make a mistake, it's not the best way to make friends in a casino.
Why am I ranting about this? Because, in my book, accepting an overpayment is a) cheating, and b) can result in a Dealer being disciplined.
Sure, the casino is always going to make money - that's the concept of "House Edge". You/We will not win in the long run. It's literally statistically impossible. However, when the House loses, if it's because the Dealer "screwed" up, the House will end up with its "pound of flesh". The Dealer will pay the price.
Back to the jerk today: in all of his rantings about how unfair the situation was, he never challenged that he'd been overpaid. In fact, when I asked him if he'd been overpaid, he ended up with a weird form of amnesia that included the phrase "shouldn't matter anyway"
Thoughts, anyone?
October 5th, 2025 at 4:28:22 PM
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The dealer has a job to do. His supervisor's job is to see the dealer does their job right. Casinos have several layers of protection for their games. I am not one of them. I don't try to cheat the casino but if their employees don't do their job, it isn't my place to correct them.
If I see someone cheating, it isn't my job to report the incident to the casino.
Your thoughts on this matter may differ. Do what makes you comfortable.
In your example- the dealer didn't pay for the mistake. The casino tracked down the person who recieved the pay and got it back.
The dealer screwed up and mishandled the casino's money- why shouldn't he be disciplined? When you do your job well, you get rewarded. The opposite should be just as accurate.
If I see someone cheating, it isn't my job to report the incident to the casino.
Your thoughts on this matter may differ. Do what makes you comfortable.
In your example- the dealer didn't pay for the mistake. The casino tracked down the person who recieved the pay and got it back.
The dealer screwed up and mishandled the casino's money- why shouldn't he be disciplined? When you do your job well, you get rewarded. The opposite should be just as accurate.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 5th, 2025 at 4:41:26 PM
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“I don't try to cheat the casino but if their employees don't do their job, it isn't my place to correct them.”
Two scenarios. What do you do?
1. You have “Two Pairs”. The Dealer pays you for “3 of a Kind”.
2. You have “3 of a Kind”. The Dealer pays you for “Two Pairs”.
In both cases, do you stand by your principles and not
“correct them”? 🤷♂️
Two scenarios. What do you do?
1. You have “Two Pairs”. The Dealer pays you for “3 of a Kind”.
2. You have “3 of a Kind”. The Dealer pays you for “Two Pairs”.
In both cases, do you stand by your principles and not
“correct them”? 🤷♂️
October 5th, 2025 at 5:08:03 PM
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Quote: BigSlick
Why am I ranting about this? Because, in my book, accepting an overpayment is a) cheating, and b) can result in a Dealer being disciplined.
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That seems a perfectly valid viewpoint, so long as the house is at least as vigorous and enthusiastic about discovering and correcting errors made in their favor.
May the cards fall in your favor.
October 5th, 2025 at 5:45:32 PM
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I will let a dealer know he made a mistake in my favor and to correct it, only in certain circumstances.
* i need to be instantly sure I saw a mistake. The game often moves on quickly
* I won't say anything if the mistake benefits other players besides me, such as at UTH and the dealer doesn't see he has a straight that beats everyone
* what if the dealer signals that he thinks I am calling him out and making him look bad in front of his boss? Evidently not worried about the eye in the sky, he can be sure I'm not saying any more about mistakes favoring me
* i need to be instantly sure I saw a mistake. The game often moves on quickly
* I won't say anything if the mistake benefits other players besides me, such as at UTH and the dealer doesn't see he has a straight that beats everyone
* what if the dealer signals that he thinks I am calling him out and making him look bad in front of his boss? Evidently not worried about the eye in the sky, he can be sure I'm not saying any more about mistakes favoring me
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
October 5th, 2025 at 6:14:27 PM
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Quote: BigSlick“I don't try to cheat the casino but if their employees don't do their job, it isn't my place to correct them.”
Two scenarios. What do you do?
1. You have “Two Pairs”. The Dealer pays you for “3 of a Kind”.
2. You have “3 of a Kind”. The Dealer pays you for “Two Pairs”.
In both cases, do you stand by your principles and not
“correct them”? 🤷♂️
link to original post
I correct all of the the errors he makes that are not in my favor, and none of the errors he makes in my favor.
In fact, I intentionally try to trick the dealer into making errors in my favor. Do I care about the dealer getting in trouble? Sure I do- exactly as much as that dealer and his employer care about me and if I am getting myself in trouble with gambling. Their job is to take my money. My job is to take their money. If I am better at my job than they are at theirs, that is not my problem.
October 5th, 2025 at 6:21:28 PM
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Quote: BigSlick“I don't try to cheat the casino but if their employees don't do their job, it isn't my place to correct them.”
Two scenarios. What do you do?
1. You have “Two Pairs”. The Dealer pays you for “3 of a Kind”.
2. You have “3 of a Kind”. The Dealer pays you for “Two Pairs”.
In both cases, do you stand by your principles and not
“correct them”? 🤷♂️
link to original post
I don't allow anyone to cheat me. If the dealer short-paid me by mistake, I'll correct him.
It isn't principles. If I order a meal and it is skimpy and undersized, I'll complain. If I receive an extra-large portion, I don't volunteer to pay more.
You asked, I answered. It's not a debate.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 6th, 2025 at 12:47:52 AM
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PaiGowDan would be all over this thread.
We were once discussing it, or maybe it was after playing together, and the dealer over paid me.
I told him there are two schools of thought in my head.
1- The action was too fast and I’m not really sure.
Dan: Really? C’mon….
2- What’s the difference? I’m just gonna lose it back.
Dan: So that’s your plan? To lose?
His second argument, kinda hurt. So now I try to make sure that the payouts are always correct.
I still miss Dan. 😢
We were once discussing it, or maybe it was after playing together, and the dealer over paid me.
I told him there are two schools of thought in my head.
1- The action was too fast and I’m not really sure.
Dan: Really? C’mon….
2- What’s the difference? I’m just gonna lose it back.
Dan: So that’s your plan? To lose?
His second argument, kinda hurt. So now I try to make sure that the payouts are always correct.
I still miss Dan. 😢
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 6th, 2025 at 7:36:09 AM
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Question for OP: if you've recently been "underpaid" due to a dealer error at a sister casino, does the casino corporation hunt you down and reimburse you?
Bwaaa-haaa-haaa! Of course not. The gaming industry ethos is "player beware!"
The dealer has been trained to deal the game and is there because he is earning a salary. If its minimum wage, well, that's what he agreed to.
We, the players, haven't been trained on the game like the dealer has. No one is paying us to play the game, not minimum wage, not even a nickel an hour. In a very real sense, we're paying to be there.
So, weep for the dealers if that's how you choose to spend the hours of life you've been given. But respect the fact that some of us choose differently.
Bwaaa-haaa-haaa! Of course not. The gaming industry ethos is "player beware!"
The dealer has been trained to deal the game and is there because he is earning a salary. If its minimum wage, well, that's what he agreed to.
We, the players, haven't been trained on the game like the dealer has. No one is paying us to play the game, not minimum wage, not even a nickel an hour. In a very real sense, we're paying to be there.
So, weep for the dealers if that's how you choose to spend the hours of life you've been given. But respect the fact that some of us choose differently.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Oct 6, 2025
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
October 6th, 2025 at 12:29:18 PM
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No. I can't say that I have.
I have been underpaid in the past and not realized it and a hand later, the Dealer realized the error and enlisted the help of the Floor to "make things right". Typically, the Floor just shrugs it off and authorizes the payout; no need to replay any tapes, etc.
I've also had play at a table stop because a call comes down from "upstairs" to report an overpayment on a previous hand. Listening to people complain and watching them roll back the machines to check hands and payouts is a real buzz kill. It also seems really petty when it's only for $5 🙄
From the responses, it sounds that I'm in a super minority on this topic. 🤪 I honestly did not see that one coming. 😳
And, of course, I respect the fact that others may feel differently than me. 👍
I have been underpaid in the past and not realized it and a hand later, the Dealer realized the error and enlisted the help of the Floor to "make things right". Typically, the Floor just shrugs it off and authorizes the payout; no need to replay any tapes, etc.
I've also had play at a table stop because a call comes down from "upstairs" to report an overpayment on a previous hand. Listening to people complain and watching them roll back the machines to check hands and payouts is a real buzz kill. It also seems really petty when it's only for $5 🙄
From the responses, it sounds that I'm in a super minority on this topic. 🤪 I honestly did not see that one coming. 😳
And, of course, I respect the fact that others may feel differently than me. 👍
October 6th, 2025 at 12:33:23 PM
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Sorry about your friend 😢
His second comment about "your plan" sounds like something I would say to one of my friends. 😉😂
His second comment about "your plan" sounds like something I would say to one of my friends. 😉😂
October 6th, 2025 at 1:24:02 PM
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Quote: BigSlick...From the responses, it sounds that I'm in a super minority on this topic. 🤪 I honestly did not see that one coming. 😳...
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Not totally. Just bear in mind that there are different categories of casino people here, all patronizing or working in/for the industry for different reasons and with different expectations, and using different methods for extracting from the casinos what they came for.
October 6th, 2025 at 2:08:58 PM
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Also bear in mind that some of the posters on this site are advantage players. As such, I would expect them to take advantage of any opportunity. And if you ask them, they’ll probably admit that they know that they overpaid, but just shrug it off for the same reasons already mentioned.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 6th, 2025 at 5:41:03 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearAlso bear in mind that some of the posters on this site are advantage players. As such, I would expect them to take advantage of any opportunity. And if you ask them, they’ll probably admit that they know that they overpaid, but just shrug it off for the same reasons already mentioned.
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Yes that's where I'm going with that, and I did not think the OP was familiar with advantage play given his first post. And complicating that is that there is a spectrum of ethical standards among APs, things they are and are not willing to do. But I've never known one who would turn down a mere overpay.
October 6th, 2025 at 5:50:31 PM
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If the OP is concerned about the inept dealer, consider this. Is it better to accept a minor payout or to bring the game to a halt and point out the mistake, alerting both the pitboss and the eye in the sky to note it?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 7th, 2025 at 10:43:47 AM
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I've seen a game "halt" when I tell the Dealer I've been overpaid and I've seen a game "halt" when the eye in the sky "calls down" and the Floor has to get involved.
I assure you the latter creates a frustrating delay. The Dealer correcting herself while she's actively paying a hand incorrectly is a nit.
But, I'm not going to drop down into the gutter to defend my original post.
My initial point was simply this:
1. Over payments happen. Dealers are human and they will make mathematical mistakes.
2. Dealers will end up in "Dealer Jail" when they screw up. They get disciplined because the House will always get its "pound of flesh". Dealers are not vested in taking your money. Quite the opposite. Typically, the more you win, the better their tips become. There is no "Dealer of the Month" award for the Dealer who screws you over the most.
3. If someone decides to accept an over-payment because it's "how they roll", so be it. I don't see how it can be a sustainable strategy.
4. If the House catches the over-payment, though, whining about the unfairness of the situation seems petty to me. Seriously? You got caught. Man up and move on!
I assure you the latter creates a frustrating delay. The Dealer correcting herself while she's actively paying a hand incorrectly is a nit.
But, I'm not going to drop down into the gutter to defend my original post.
My initial point was simply this:
1. Over payments happen. Dealers are human and they will make mathematical mistakes.
2. Dealers will end up in "Dealer Jail" when they screw up. They get disciplined because the House will always get its "pound of flesh". Dealers are not vested in taking your money. Quite the opposite. Typically, the more you win, the better their tips become. There is no "Dealer of the Month" award for the Dealer who screws you over the most.
3. If someone decides to accept an over-payment because it's "how they roll", so be it. I don't see how it can be a sustainable strategy.
4. If the House catches the over-payment, though, whining about the unfairness of the situation seems petty to me. Seriously? You got caught. Man up and move on!
October 7th, 2025 at 11:44:46 AM
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This is the best debate on any topic I've seen in my (very limited) time on the forums. Really top level.
To appoint myself as referee ...
I see the point that the House doesn't track you down if they underpay you. And, I have not personally corrected the House on an incorrect overpayment. I play small stakes, but that is only my excuse. I imagine, over time, I'm about even on incorrect payments, and if not, the difference either way is probably less than $100 over my 14 years in Vegas.
So ... no practical consequence to my decisions. Anything large enough, the House will make up eventually anyway. But what about the morality?
Speaking as someone who regularly finds excuses to not obey The Golden Rule, I cannot, and I do not, sit in judgment.
But if I practiced what I preach, then what the House does should not influence my action and I should always point out overpays.
If you believe in karma, maybe $5 here and there, even though there's no practical consequence to anyone, is a good way to build some positive karma.
To appoint myself as referee ...
I see the point that the House doesn't track you down if they underpay you. And, I have not personally corrected the House on an incorrect overpayment. I play small stakes, but that is only my excuse. I imagine, over time, I'm about even on incorrect payments, and if not, the difference either way is probably less than $100 over my 14 years in Vegas.
So ... no practical consequence to my decisions. Anything large enough, the House will make up eventually anyway. But what about the morality?
Speaking as someone who regularly finds excuses to not obey The Golden Rule, I cannot, and I do not, sit in judgment.
But if I practiced what I preach, then what the House does should not influence my action and I should always point out overpays.
If you believe in karma, maybe $5 here and there, even though there's no practical consequence to anyone, is a good way to build some positive karma.
October 7th, 2025 at 11:59:51 AM
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Quote: SummerlinDaveThis is the best debate on any topic I've seen in my (very limited) time on the forums. Really top level.
To appoint myself as referee ...
I see the point that the House doesn't track you down if they underpay you. And, I have not personally corrected the House on an incorrect overpayment. I play small stakes, but that is only my excuse. I imagine, over time, I'm about even on incorrect payments, and if not, the difference either way is probably less than $100 over my 14 years in Vegas.
So ... no practical consequence to my decisions. Anything large enough, the House will make up eventually anyway. But what about the morality?
Speaking as someone who regularly finds excuses to not obey The Golden Rule, I cannot, and I do not, sit in judgment.
But if I practiced what I preach, then what the House does should not influence my action and I should always point out overpays.
If you believe in karma, maybe $5 here and there, even though there's no practical consequence to anyone, is a good way to build some positive karma.
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well said, Sir.
October 7th, 2025 at 12:17:00 PM
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There was an article in the news two years ago about a casino in Vegas that determined a man had won a jackpot, but it had improperly paid him a fraction of what he was owed. The man was playing without a card at Treasure Island. The State board and the casino spent a significant amount of time tracking him down and ensuring that he received payment.
He was back home in Arizona when he got a call about a $230,000 jackpot he had no idea he won.
He was back home in Arizona when he got a call about a $230,000 jackpot he had no idea he won.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 7th, 2025 at 12:44:37 PM
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Quote: billryanThere was an article in the news two years ago about a casino in Vegas that determined a man had won a jackpot, but it had improperly paid him a fraction of what he was owed. The man was playing without a card at Treasure Island. The State board and the casino spent a significant amount of time tracking him down and ensuring that he received payment.
He was back home in Arizona when he got a call about a $230,000 jackpot he had no idea he won.
link to original post
I recall that, when The Mirage closed, they were obligated to pay out some dollar amount of jackpots (the details and nuances escape me).
Was this a similar situation/regulation?
October 7th, 2025 at 12:53:29 PM
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Quote: SummerlinDaveQuote: billryanThere was an article in the news two years ago about a casino in Vegas that determined a man had won a jackpot, but it had improperly paid him a fraction of what he was owed. The man was playing without a card at Treasure Island. The State board and the casino spent a significant amount of time tracking him down and ensuring that he received payment.
He was back home in Arizona when he got a call about a $230,000 jackpot he had no idea he won.
link to original post
I recall that, when The Mirage closed, they were obligated to pay out some dollar amount of jackpots (the details and nuances escape me).
Was this a similar situation/regulation?
link to original post
All I ever read said it was a communication error, and it registered as a non-winning hand.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 7th, 2025 at 1:04:25 PM
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Maybe someone in the industry can answer…..
If I walked up to a pit boss, or some other ‘suit’, and politely asked….
“If I lose my $25 Pai Gow bet, but the dealer pays me as if I had won, what are MY RESPONSIBILITIES at that point? (Not what should I do, what is ethical to do, not what would you do…)
I was once told by a dealer they prefer their errors NOT be pointed out, as THAT gets them scrutinized. Them paying an extra $25 is rarely noticed UNLESS it is pointed out by a player.
Where it gets complicated is when a dealer mis sets his hand. If the mis set helps another player but hurts me…..
If I walked up to a pit boss, or some other ‘suit’, and politely asked….
“If I lose my $25 Pai Gow bet, but the dealer pays me as if I had won, what are MY RESPONSIBILITIES at that point? (Not what should I do, what is ethical to do, not what would you do…)
I was once told by a dealer they prefer their errors NOT be pointed out, as THAT gets them scrutinized. Them paying an extra $25 is rarely noticed UNLESS it is pointed out by a player.
Where it gets complicated is when a dealer mis sets his hand. If the mis set helps another player but hurts me…..
October 7th, 2025 at 1:04:57 PM
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Quote: billryanQuote: SummerlinDaveQuote: billryanThere was an article in the news two years ago about a casino in Vegas that determined a man had won a jackpot, but it had improperly paid him a fraction of what he was owed. The man was playing without a card at Treasure Island. The State board and the casino spent a significant amount of time tracking him down and ensuring that he received payment.
He was back home in Arizona when he got a call about a $230,000 jackpot he had no idea he won.
link to original post
I recall that, when The Mirage closed, they were obligated to pay out some dollar amount of jackpots (the details and nuances escape me).
Was this a similar situation/regulation?
link to original post
All I ever read said it was a communication error, and it registered as a non-winning hand.
link to original post
My memory isn't much better, but I seem to recall he won a machine progressive, the machine did not register the amount correctly, and he decided to abandon the few dollars left on the credit meter rather than wait an unknown duration for the attendant to clear the problem.
They tracked him down at home and settled up.
May the cards fall in your favor.
October 7th, 2025 at 4:00:42 PM
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In that particular case, I think it would be a gaming violation for the casino to keep the money and not do their due diligence to find the proper recipient. I don't think this is the case of Casino employees just wanting to do the right thing.Quote: billryanThere was an article in the news two years ago about a casino in Vegas that determined a man had won a jackpot, but it had improperly paid him a fraction of what he was owed. The man was playing without a card at Treasure Island. The State board and the casino spent a significant amount of time tracking him down and ensuring that he received payment.
He was back home in Arizona when he got a call about a $230,000 jackpot he had no idea he won.
link to original post
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
October 7th, 2025 at 4:21:43 PM
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Back when I used to do some card counting, I've been known to tuck multi-card 22's while saying, "21". It worked surprisingly well often.Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: BigSlick“I don't try to cheat the casino but if their employees don't do their job, it isn't my place to correct them.”
Two scenarios. What do you do?
1. You have “Two Pairs”. The Dealer pays you for “3 of a Kind”.
2. You have “3 of a Kind”. The Dealer pays you for “Two Pairs”.
In both cases, do you stand by your principles and not
“correct them”? 🤷♂️
link to original post
I correct all of the the errors he makes that are not in my favor, and none of the errors he makes in my favor.
In fact, I intentionally try to trick the dealer into making errors in my favor. Do I care about the dealer getting in trouble? Sure I do- exactly as much as that dealer and his employer care about me and if I am getting myself in trouble with gambling. Their job is to take my money. My job is to take their money. If I am better at my job than they are at theirs, that is not my problem.
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I feel no guilt whatsoever, considering how many times the casinos have tried to screwed me over while Advantage Playing 100% legitimately.
The casinos fired the first shots at me multiple times before I became calloused and decided to play any legal tactic I can get away with in order to get their money in my pocket.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
October 7th, 2025 at 4:31:43 PM
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I'd occasionally cry out an excited "push" when a dealer's multicard hand beat my multicard hand, and the efforts weren't entirely wasted.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 7th, 2025 at 5:17:38 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfBack when I used to do some card counting, I've been known to tuck multi-card 22's while saying, "21". It worked surprisingly well often.Quote: AutomaticMonkey
I correct all of the the errors he makes that are not in my favor, and none of the errors he makes in my favor.
In fact, I intentionally try to trick the dealer into making errors in my favor. Do I care about the dealer getting in trouble? Sure I do- exactly as much as that dealer and his employer care about me and if I am getting myself in trouble with gambling. Their job is to take my money. My job is to take their money. If I am better at my job than they are at theirs, that is not my problem.
link to original post
I feel no guilt whatsoever, considering how many times the casinos have tried to screwed me over while Advantage Playing 100% legitimately.
The casinos fired the first shots at me multiple times before I became calloused and decided to play any legal tactic I can get away with in order to get their money in my pocket.
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Now try it with a 23! The way people add up numbers, they are more likely to recognize an even number is not an odd number than they are to distinguish between two odd numbers.
Ever slap the table so hard you flip the dealer's cards over?
October 7th, 2025 at 5:20:58 PM
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In blackjack you can expect most dealers to total up a hand correctly most of the time.
But in other games this can be much more frequent. When Ultimate Texas Hold'em first became popular mispays were extremely common. A dealer who has never played or dealt poker is going to make a lot of mistakes reading the board. It's not difficult, per se, but it does take some practice. You even see it in the poker room with break-in dealers who haven't played before (many dealers play, but certainly not all)
You need to watch it both ways. It's common for a dealer not to notice when they have qualified (and thus short pay you) on a paired board.
They also often don't realize that top pair or an overpair is actually two pair on a paired board. So for example if they have KK or KQ you have JT they don't realize that they win on a board of QJT33. Or they may not realize that A2 beats 99 on a board of QJ6JQ. These are common mistakes and they come up a lot.
But in other games this can be much more frequent. When Ultimate Texas Hold'em first became popular mispays were extremely common. A dealer who has never played or dealt poker is going to make a lot of mistakes reading the board. It's not difficult, per se, but it does take some practice. You even see it in the poker room with break-in dealers who haven't played before (many dealers play, but certainly not all)
You need to watch it both ways. It's common for a dealer not to notice when they have qualified (and thus short pay you) on a paired board.
They also often don't realize that top pair or an overpair is actually two pair on a paired board. So for example if they have KK or KQ you have JT they don't realize that they win on a board of QJT33. Or they may not realize that A2 beats 99 on a board of QJ6JQ. These are common mistakes and they come up a lot.
October 7th, 2025 at 6:37:14 PM
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No, I've never slapped the table hard enough to flip over cards. I've tucked on 23s, but they seem to catch those more often, and it seems less likely it's a mistake on your part.Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: AxelWolfBack when I used to do some card counting, I've been known to tuck multi-card 22's while saying, "21". It worked surprisingly well often.Quote: AutomaticMonkey
I correct all of the the errors he makes that are not in my favor, and none of the errors he makes in my favor.
In fact, I intentionally try to trick the dealer into making errors in my favor. Do I care about the dealer getting in trouble? Sure I do- exactly as much as that dealer and his employer care about me and if I am getting myself in trouble with gambling. Their job is to take my money. My job is to take their money. If I am better at my job than they are at theirs, that is not my problem.
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I feel no guilt whatsoever, considering how many times the casinos have tried to screwed me over while Advantage Playing 100% legitimately.
The casinos fired the first shots at me multiple times before I became calloused and decided to play any legal tactic I can get away with in order to get their money in my pocket.
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Now try it with a 23! The way people add up numbers, they are more likely to recognize an even number is not an odd number than they are to distinguish between two odd numbers.
Ever slap the table so hard you flip the dealer's cards over?
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
October 7th, 2025 at 7:57:40 PM
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I liked playing some of the push on 22 variants of blackjack when you had a dealer who treated 22 as a bust
Happy days are here again
October 7th, 2025 at 8:15:25 PM
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Quote: HunterhillI liked playing some of the push on 22 variants of blackjack when you had a dealer who treated 22 as a bust
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That is still available, now and then.
Best thing I ever had like that was a poker-based game, I don't want to name it because there might still be guys out there playing this. But mandatory sidebet along with the main bet and an optional sidebet, and they were letting me play the optional sidebet instead of the mandatory one. (And you can guess why it was mandatory.)
Dumped a tray, they got a fill and I dumped half of that, then the dealer abruptly got taken off the game and the new one just stood there without dealing, and I see managers and security starting to assemble. Only time I ever ran out of a casino. It took me a while to come back and cash out that mess piecemeal, but it was worth it.
October 7th, 2025 at 8:59:52 PM
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I like playing Pai Gow with a new dealer. When I had a really bad hand, I would violate the high/low setting rule in order to push the dealer hand. That worked for me very well.
Also, new dealers often do not know house way very well. That may give AP players another edge.
Also, new dealers often do not know house way very well. That may give AP players another edge.
Last edited by: aceside on Oct 7, 2025
October 8th, 2025 at 5:02:30 AM
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For all the moralists out there who point out dealer overpayments: do you point out when the dealer has overpaid another player at the table?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
October 8th, 2025 at 6:25:48 AM
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Yeah, you’re talking to me and maybe others.Quote: gordonm888For all the moralists out there who point out dealer overpayments: do you point out when the dealer has overpaid another player at the table?
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No. I would never point out an overpayment affecting someone else. No sense getting beat up for no reason.
I’m in town for G2E. Got here Saturday, with my first couple of days staying at Gold Coast.
I’m at a $5 table with a bunch of recreational $5 players. I’m playing my normal game with $100 placed on the even numbers (20/30/30/20). Several dealers constantly making mistakes about what my intentions were despite me pointing to the boxes while saying the amounts and also saying even numbers. At one point. a box man come to me to chat with me because he recognized that I knew what I was doing while the dealers were very green.
This past Monday night, my third night at Gold Coast, I stepped up to the craps table just as a player had sevened out, and some players are coloring up, including the guy next to me.
I look down and I see the dealer had stacked chips to count for a total of $437. And then counted out $432 to pay. I said, “count it again”. Both the dealer and the box glanced at me. But the dealer started to push the chips towards the player next to me. I said, “count it again” one more time. She finished pushing the chips forward. The player next to me reached down and picked up the chips. I said very sternly “put those chips back down”. He complied and then I looked at the dealer again and said “count it again” which she finally did and then the dealer and the box realized it was short five dollars.
The player wasn’t paying attention. He did thank me, but should I have not said anything?
Last edited by: DJTeddyBear on Oct 8, 2025
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 8th, 2025 at 6:41:50 AM
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Later that night, a player across from me had thrown and one went off the table. Happens all the time. But the guy next to me decided that I meant something and bet $15 on red. Fine, see you at all time. The player threw the dice off the table again so the guy next to me put another $5 on red. sure enough the next roll was a seven.
I tried to follow the payment, but it was too fast. I think they paid him as if the $15 were hop bets while the $5 was a red bet. It should’ve been $18 hopping with $2 on red.
I told the player that I think he got short paid. I explained to him how. But also said that I think it was only a buck. He understood, but it was too late to do anything. I also said that I wondered if it would been paid correctly if when he added the $5 he did it as singles rather than a nickel.
Anyway, I’ve moved downtown. I’m now at Golden Nugget. Hopefully things will be better. I’ll let you know.
I tried to follow the payment, but it was too fast. I think they paid him as if the $15 were hop bets while the $5 was a red bet. It should’ve been $18 hopping with $2 on red.
I told the player that I think he got short paid. I explained to him how. But also said that I think it was only a buck. He understood, but it was too late to do anything. I also said that I wondered if it would been paid correctly if when he added the $5 he did it as singles rather than a nickel.
Anyway, I’ve moved downtown. I’m now at Golden Nugget. Hopefully things will be better. I’ll let you know.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 8th, 2025 at 6:42:14 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearYeah, you’re talking to me and maybe others.Quote: gordonm888For all the moralists out there who point out dealer overpayments: do you point out when the dealer has overpaid another player at the table?
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No. I would never point out an overpayment affecting someone else. No sense getting beat up for no reason.
I’m in town for G2E. Got here Saturday, with my first couple of days staying at Gold Coast.
I’m at a $5 table with a bunch of recreational $5 players. I’m playing my normal game with $100 placed on the even numbers (20/30/30/20). Several dealers constantly making mistakes about what my intentions were despite me pointing to the boxes while saying the amounts and also saying even numbers. At one point. a box man come to me to chat with me because he recognized that I knew what I was doing while the dealers were very green.
This past Monday night, my third night at Gold Coast, I stepped up to the craps table just as a player had sevened out, and some players are coloring up, including the guy next to me.
I look down and I see the dealer had stacked chips to count for a total of $437. And then counted out $432 to pay. I said, “count it again”. Both the dealer and the box glanced at me. But the dealer started to push the chips towards the player next to me. I said, “count it again” one more time. She finished pushing the chips forward. The player next to me reached down and picked up the chips. I said very sternly “put those chips back down”. He complied and then I looked at the dealer again and said “count it again” which she finally did and then the dealer and the box realized it was short five dollars.
The player wasn’t paying attention. He did thank me, but should I have not said anything?
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👏👏👏
October 8th, 2025 at 6:43:22 AM
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Dealer overpay mistakes have been pointed out a lot of times everyday, but based on my observation, these people are usually bitter losers that day.
October 8th, 2025 at 6:45:37 AM
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BigSlick -
Look up. I posted a follow up at the same time you posted.
Look up. I posted a follow up at the same time you posted.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, irrational, childish rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 8th, 2025 at 6:47:24 AM
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Saw that. You sound like my type of Player 🫡👏👏👏
October 8th, 2025 at 8:18:49 AM
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Tipping $150 on a $1200 session win is suicidal.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 8th, 2025 at 9:00:29 AM
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Quote: billryanTipping $150 on a $1200 session win is suicidal.
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How is it “”suicide” to be nice? I left the casino with almost $1200 more than I started with, had a really good time, and shared with the Dealer who was partially responsible for the fun all of us had at the table. 🤷♂️
October 8th, 2025 at 9:19:30 AM
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My Grandma used to tell me she got old too soon and smart too late. It's some of the best advice I've ever gotten.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 8th, 2025 at 10:56:34 AM
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Quote: billryanMy Grandma used to tell me she got old too soon and smart too late. It's some of the best advice I've ever gotten.
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😉😎
October 8th, 2025 at 11:10:32 AM
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Quote: BigSlickQuote: billryanTipping $150 on a $1200 session win is suicidal.
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How is it “”suicide” to be nice? I left the casino with almost $1200 more than I started with, had a really good time, and shared with the Dealer who was partially responsible for the fun all of us had at the table. 🤷♂️
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If you're a recreational player, I'm sure that $150 bought you some fine entertainment.
I know my usual casinos "tip" me at around 0.1%, and I try to follow their lead.
$25 would be a bit over 2% on $1200, should you want to roughly double the house edge for the benefit of the crew.
May the cards fall in your favor.
October 8th, 2025 at 11:33:57 AM
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BigSlick, are you a dealer or other casino employee? With some things you have said it makes me think so ... except you talk about playing yourself, which I think you can't do where you work
I can't quite picture, as just a player, such advocacy for rejecting overpays and overtipping
I can't quite picture, as just a player, such advocacy for rejecting overpays and overtipping
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
October 8th, 2025 at 12:51:22 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitBigSlick, are you a dealer or other casino employee? With some things you have said it makes me think so ... except you talk about playing yourself, which I think you can't do where you work
I can't quite picture, as just a player, such advocacy for rejecting overpays and overtipping
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No. I’m just a casual Player. I’m not associated with any casinos. For me, it’s purely “recreational”. I’m
retired and I enjoy games of chance and meeting new people.
TBH, I didn’t realize “casino strategies” could be cut-throat to the point where folks would try to “trick” the Dealers into over-paying them. I guess it makes sense it it’s “your jam/job”.
But, my guess would be that the House edge probably overcomes even that eventually, too. Right?
October 8th, 2025 at 1:07:11 PM
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If it was all you were doing, it would be unlikely to beat the house edge. Sometimes it doesn't take much, though, if the HE is lowQuote: BigSlickQuote: odiousgambitBigSlick, are you a dealer or other casino employee? With some things you have said it makes me think so ... except you talk about playing yourself, which I think you can't do where you work
I can't quite picture, as just a player, such advocacy for rejecting overpays and overtipping
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No. I’m just a casual Player. I’m not associated with any casinos. For me, it’s purely “recreational”. I’m
retired and I enjoy games of chance and meeting new people.
TBH, I didn’t realize “casino strategies” could be cut-throat to the point where folks would try to “trick” the Dealers into over-paying them. I guess it makes sense it it’s “your jam/job”.
But, my guess would be that the House edge probably overcomes even that eventually, too. Right?
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I've seen retired guys who were generous to the dealers, usually making bets for them every time they made a bet
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
October 8th, 2025 at 1:07:27 PM
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Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: HunterhillI liked playing some of the push on 22 variants of blackjack when you had a dealer who treated 22 as a bust
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That is still available, now and then.
Best thing I ever had like that was a poker-based game, I don't want to name it because there might still be guys out there playing this. But mandatory sidebet along with the main bet and an optional sidebet, and they were letting me play the optional sidebet instead of the mandatory one. (And you can guess why it was mandatory.)
Dumped a tray, they got a fill and I dumped half of that, then the dealer abruptly got taken off the game and the new one just stood there without dealing, and I see managers and security starting to assemble. Only time I ever ran out of a casino. It took me a while to come back and cash out that mess piecemeal, but it was worth it.
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You ran out of the casino? Wouldn’t you have been harder to catch if you had swung from the rafters? Swing, Monkey, swing!
I want to start wearing a T-shirt that reads, “Don’t feel sorry for me. I’m an AP!”
October 8th, 2025 at 1:10:13 PM
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I know which game he is talking about and wow would that be +EV!!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
October 8th, 2025 at 1:16:01 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitIf it was all you were doing, it would be unlikely to beat the house edge. Sometimes it doesn't take much, though, if the HE is lowQuote: BigSlickQuote: odiousgambitBigSlick, are you a dealer or other casino employee? With some things you have said it makes me think so ... except you talk about playing yourself, which I think you can't do where you work
I can't quite picture, as just a player, such advocacy for rejecting overpays and overtipping
link to original post
No. I’m just a casual Player. I’m not associated with any casinos. For me, it’s purely “recreational”. I’m
retired and I enjoy games of chance and meeting new people.
TBH, I didn’t realize “casino strategies” could be cut-throat to the point where folks would try to “trick” the Dealers into over-paying them. I guess it makes sense it it’s “your jam/job”.
But, my guess would be that the House edge probably overcomes even that eventually, too. Right?
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I've seen retired guys who were generous to the dealers, usually making bets for them every time they made a bet
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Yes. I sometimes do that (make bets for the Dealers); especially on the Craps table. In my experience, most of the Dealers seem to be decent people who are doing their best to scrape out a living. For me (personally), if I end up with more than I started with, I don’t mind sharing it with them - at least the “fun” ones 😂
